Rafael is going through puberty. which of the following can he expect to occur during this time?

FELIX CONTRERAS, HOST:

From NPR Music, this is ALT.LATINO. I'm Felix Contreras.

(SOUNDBITE OF SONG, "LAZY BLUES")

CONTRERAS: What do you think about when you hear the term Latin musician? What sounds come to mind? Are you curious about the musician's country of origin or cultural roots and then think about specific sounds? This week's show is about defying expectations, the idea of being open to the unexpected, to challenging your own preconceived ideas and then being pleasantly surprised in the process. We're going to meet two musicians this week who have carved out paths for themselves that might surprise you. We're going to meet Carlos Rafael Rivera, a film composer who's originally from Guatemala, whose work is included on one of the most popular Netflix series to come along in a long time. But first, a drummer from Cuba. Dafnis Prieto comes from a part of the world that we could say has a very dynamic drum tradition. And while he does know his way around Afro-Cuban drumming, he's established himself here in the U.S. as a bandleader and composer that stretches and often shatters the expectations of straight-ahead jazz. But before we talk to him, let's hear a bit of his music and his drumming.

(SOUNDBITE OF DAFNIS PRIETO SEXTET'S "LAZY BLUES")

CONTRERAS: That was "Lazy Blues" by the Dafnis Prieto Sextet from their latest album, "Transparency." Every story has a beginning, and this is how it started for Dafnis Prieto.

DAFNIS PRIETO: I'm originally from Santa Clara, Cuba. Since I was a kid, I would say 5, 6 years old, I started getting enchanted by music in my surroundings. I was born in a very humble neighborhood. And I used - they used to be rehearsing on their houses. And they, you know, people play the radio loud, and you can hear the radio. It's a very interactive environment. And within that, I got to be exposed to music very early. Since I was a kid, I was influenced by percussion first because I used to listen to rumba. I used to listen to carnival music and all that. And, you know, Cuban music, like, more traditional Cuban music. Then I started listening - more of a jazz kind of drumming. Then I went into the classical music - classical training conservatory, so that gave me a completely different idea of what music is or could be. And so I was influenced by that, too. Then inside of the jazz big umbrella, I will say, I also was - start getting interested in works of people like Henry Threadgill and Ornette Coleman or Steve Coleman or Andrew Hill, people that - some of them, I end up working with them later on. Right? So - and that has nothing to do in a direct way with Cuban music, right? So I try to accept music as it resonates with me, you know, in many levels, as a - in a human level, in a existing level but also in a intellectual level, and in a musical level and in a, you know, an emotional level as well. So to me, that all is a wide spectrum of influences. And I try to personalize. So obviously, I'm going to have a lot of influence from where I come from, from Cuban music. So you can hear that influence, but it's already filtered through my perception, through the way I do things - I personally do things. And, you know, that's something that, you know, just - it just develops through the years. And I like to see it as a way to personalize things that you really care for. And you really like to have that very specific sound through the composition, through the arranging and through the playing as well, you know, and being able to also as a leader to communicate that to the musicians.

CONTRERAS: And now let's hear a track called "Feed The Lions."

(SOUNDBITE OF DAFNIS PRIETO SEXTET'S "FEED THE LIONS")

PRIETO: I'm trying to find my own voice, and that's who I am. I've been like that since I was a kid. I always wanted to do what - things my way. You know, I like to be part of a collective creative process as well. That's - the creative part is the one that I'm always very interested and very inspired by just to make something - even to be a carpenter, even to make something, something out of nothing, that it was nothing there. Like, I love architecture, for example, and I love painting. I love, you know, visual arts. I love anything that it comes out of an idea inside of a brain of a person that nothing is there. And in a period of time, there is something there that could be appreciated, that people can benefit from it. And also it can enhance, and it can educate. And it can embrace, and it can invite. It can change people's life and way of feeling and way of making connections in life, which is part of the whole experience at the end of the run, right?

(SOUNDBITE OF DAFNIS PRIETO SEXTET'S "FEED THE LIONS")

CONTRERAS: Back in the late 1940s, trumpeter and composer Dizzy Gillespie was one of the original architects of what we call Latin jazz or Afro-Cuban jazz. And on his new album, Dafnis Prieto takes a Gillespie composition that has become a Latin jazz standard, and he does something very special with it. He discovers another way to release the beauty of the song. One of my all-time favorites is called "Con Alma."

(SOUNDBITE OF DAFNIS PRIETO SEXTET'S "CON ALMA")

PRIETO: "Con Alma" is a lovely song written by Dizzy Gillespie. I always loved that song since the first time I heard it long time ago - maybe 15, 20 years or even more. I always heard it as slower, you know, and with that kind of intimacy because con alma means with soul. So I always thought that it should have that kind of intimacy. So I did this, you know, this arrangement, which is, you know, for the musicians out there is kind of in a - in triplet feel, but in five. It has five beats. And I try to personalize it the same way. I try to make an arrangement where the ideas that I had kind of blend together with the song, with the melody - right? - and the arrangement, you know, the different voices and things like that.

(SOUNDBITE OF DAFNIS PRIETO SEXTET'S "AMANECER CONTIGO")

PRIETO: "Amanecer Contigo" is a happy, uplifting and love song. So it's a - I always say it's a love song with freedom. It's a song that I dedicated to my wife. And amanecer contigo means waking up with you. It captures that very optimistic, uplifting and very enlightening, you know, experience when you are in love in the morning and you're waking up with the person that you really love and you really care for. And, you know, it's that moment where you wake up and you realize where you're at in your life in terms of - emotionally, right? I love the melody so much, and it's very happy and uplifting. Let's put it that way.

CONTRERAS: You could do a reggaeton version, man.

PRIETO: A reggaeton version as well.

(LAUGHTER)

PRIETO: Oh, my goodness.

CONTRERAS: I'm kidding, man. I'm kidding.

PRIETO: Let someone else do it, and don't let me hear it (laughter).

CONTRERAS: (Laughter).

(SOUNDBITE OF DAFNIS PRIETO SEXTET'S "AMANECER CONTIGO")

CONTRERAS: Dafnis Prieto, thank you so much for taking time to talk to us, man. It's been an honor to talk to you about your music, and I've wanted to do this for a long time. So thank you.

PRIETO: Thank you. My very pleasure. And, you know, I wish you all the best. And take care of yourself, you know, during these times. And thank you for the invitation. It's a great pleasure and an honor for me. Thank you, Felix.

CONTRERAS: Yeah, man.

Dafnis Prieto is a jazz musician, and we played bits and pieces of his much longer performances from the new album "Transparency." Please go to our website at npr.org/alt.latino to hear more of his music.

(SOUNDBITE OF DAFNIS PRIETO SEXTET'S "AMANECER CONTIGO")

CONTRERAS: "Amanecer Contigo" from the Dafnis Prieto Sextet.

You are listening to ALT.LATINO. I'm Felix Contreras. This week, we're talking to two musicians who have staked out their own unique path in music while defying expectations. Next up, film composer Carlos Rafael Rivera.

(SOUNDBITE OF MUSIC)

CONTRERAS: His latest work is featured in the very popular Netflix series "The Queen's Gambit." Now, before we start at the beginning of his story, let's hear some of his work. This bit of the score from "Queen's Gambit" is called "Playing Beltik," and if you've seen the series, you'll know the reference of the title. And if you haven't seen it, then just enjoy the dramatic, lush orchestrations. And then let's hear where it all came from.

(SOUNDBITE OF CARLOS RAFAEL RIVERA'S "PLAYING BELTIK")

CARLOS RAFAEL RIVERA: I grew up actually in Central America. My dad's from Cuba. My mom's from Guatemala. I moved to Guatemala when I was 6 years old. And I moved to Costa Rica when I was 9. And I moved to Panama when I was 11 years old, and back to Costa Rica when I was, like, about 13. And then I moved to Miami when I was 14. And it was in Costa Rica that my brother, my older brother, joined a rock band. And I would go watch them rehearse. I got an electric guitar. I started taking lessons there. And I was just, like, the 4-year-old younger brother that shouldn't be there and that was annoying them. All along that time, even when I was in Central America, I loved film music, but I never thought it would be something I'd be doing. Actually, I thought composers were born on another island, that they were from another country altogether, that it was just something that seemed so far away. And I was already aware of the names - people like Jerry Goldsmith or John Williams or James Horner. And I loved the soundtracks to "E.T." that we listened to. You know, I mean, we had the soundtracks for "Star Wars" as well. But, again, it felt like the other thing that famous people do, and I certainly wasn't going to ever be part of that. When we moved to Miami, I got into the rock band thing. And then I started studying classical music. When I went to university, I went to FIU, Florida International University. And I got my bachelor's, and I fell in love with composition. I went to USC. And then once I had moved to LA, that's when opportunities started to happen.

CONTRERAS: I want to talk a little bit more about the job, the composer, the whole idea of, like, you create atmospheres. If you're doing your job, you don't even notice. The music enhances the visual aspect of it as an element of all the storytelling. It's such a long tradition and what I consider a noble tradition. Talk a little bit about that and how you feel where you fit in and what your goals and aims are to fit into that tradition.

RIVERA: Well, I mean, I think if I talk first and foremost, it's from the point of view of a fan because I'm no different in that sense that I've - I'm such a big fan of good stories and good filmmaking. And I was then. I still am now. If an amazing score comes out now, I'm, like, all over it. Like, yesterday - I can't take it. You know, I get moved by it. For me, it was a movie called "The Great Train Robbery" by Jerry Goldsmith that I saw in the movie theater in Guatemala. And I just knew then that music was doing something special. I don't know how to explain it. Like, you probably may not be able to verbalize it. That's the hard thing about talking about music because it just - you can't really do anything than just play it and someone will feel a certain kind of emotion or reaction. A reaction will be - you know, will ensue. And that movie - I just remember listening to that score and going, God, this is so, so cool.

And the same thing happened when I watched "E.T." in that there's a couple moments other than those. Like, when the bike - there's a moment in "E.T." that probably everybody - most people listening may have seen it, when the bike takes off. I remember I was 11 years old. I was in the movie theater in Panama when I saw that. And tears jumped out of my eyeballs. I didn't start crying. It was just like (mimicking gushing). Like, there was this manipulated experience where all of these elements came together. And the ecstasy of just sort of watching this breakthrough, the impossible thing. These bikes can fly now. And E.T. is saving the day, like, the hero moment. Oh, my God. I mean, that moment to me is one where I did not have any control of myself watching and - as an 11-year-old. And then later in my 20s, I saw a movie called "Cinema Paradiso," where Ennio Morricone scored at the end - you know, I don't want to give it away for the few people who may have not seen it. But there is a sequence that happens right at the end where the same thing happened. Like, tears jumped out of my (laughter) eyes. And I'm not kidding. It's like a muscle kicked in that I didn't know existed.

And everything about our media experience is fake. We kind of give in to what's called the suspension of disbelief. We want to buy into a story if it's being well told. We want to believe that these spaceships are flying, that there are sounds in space and explosions happen in space and that, you know, aliens are going to do something and that we're in peril. And what makes those things happen is a well-told story, a well-crafted story more importantly than it has to do with good cinematography, it has to do with good acting and I believe, more importantly, a good sound. I think the sound design is one of the least spoken about aspects of storytelling in media. And you can shoot a movie beautifully. But if it sounds bad, it's not a film. If you watch a very badly shot film, just the quality of it, but it sounds great, it's a movie. And the fact is that knowing - and that's the one thing I've been learning over the last seven or eight years that I've been doing this, you know, actively, is how artificial the sound world is. About 80% of everything you're hearing in a movie experience is manufactured. So, like, if I had a leather jacket on - which I don't, but it would be cool, right? - and I was moving around, somebody would be doing the foley for it. And you'd be hearing (mimicking creaking) the leather moving, which is impossible. I was just showing my wife "Silverado," just this duel scene in "Silverado." And basically, he's walking, and there's a tumbleweed that's like a hundred meters away crossing the screen. You hear that tumbleweed in the movie. It's an impossibility in reality. But when we're in there, we're in the suspension of disbelief. Sound helps us submerge there.

So my job as a composer is to add to that sonic landscape. My job is to, like, look at the topography as it's been laid out and bring out the things that are already there - more specifically, to support dialogue. If dialogue is happening, to me, the dialogue is the melody of the story. And the music is there to support, almost like a background musician to the lead singer. You know, when they sing a line, you kind of answer it, but you're never stepping over them. So it's a very delicate kind of thing that I've learned over the years to appreciate, by which my greatest teacher is sound, and that's what's going to guide me - apart from, of course, you know, the directors - what they want and the kind of tone they want to establish. But my job is to work with sound to help tell the director's story.

(SOUNDBITE OF SONG, "MAIN TITLE")

CONTRERAS: Carlos Rivera's work on "The Queen's Gambit" came about because of his existing working relationship with the series director Scott Frank.

RIVERA: My first job with Scott Frank was a movie called "A Walk Among The Tombstones" and - with Liam Neeson. And that was the biggest lucky break I think I could have ever hoped for. And then the second project I worked with him was "Godless" for - it was our first project for Netflix. And that was a fantastic experience because Scott looks at them like movies. They're not, like, episodic television. However, it's almost like a seven-hour movie if you will. It just happens to be broken up in chunks, so you can, you know, digest it, I guess. And the same thing happened with "The Queen's Gambit." So it's my third experience getting to do this. And like I told you before, as a fan, I feel like right now like I'm lying a little bit. I feel like a little bit of the imposter syndrome thing, you know, 'cause I've been hearing some of the data of how well the show has done. And I'm like, yeah, that's cool. Whatever. I don't think it's real (laughter), you know, because it really has been a joy to get to work with him. And the challenges have been challenges in learning how to tell story that are making me a better musician. And I feel very blessed to, you know, to be at this moment in time right now because I think there's so much more to learn. Yet I've been given an education while on the job if anything, if that makes any sense.

CONTRERAS: I want to go back to the first part of your life when you said you moved from various countries - from Guatemala, Costa Rica...

RIVERA: Yeah. Yeah.

CONTRERAS: ...And these different places. Did you absorb any of the music that was from each of those countries that was would be considered folkloric music or music reflective of that country 'cause I'm sure that...

RIVERA: Yeah.

CONTRERAS: ...There's certainly always, like, this international web of pop music that we all absorb, right? But was there something specific to each one of those cultures that you heard and maybe sunk in a little bit?

RIVERA: You know, it's funny. I think there was sort of a big change in my 20s when I started studying music, you know, at university because I was late to the game. I was going to become an accountant, and then I kind of switched. And growing up in Central America, I remember in Guatemala, you know, there was a Sunday show that played all afternoon. In Latin culture in Miami, there's a show called - there was a show called "Sábado Gigante" if not still there. This kind of thing is actually kind of a common thing in Central America or in Latin America. And I remember listening to marimbas in Guatemala as a kid. And I remember listening - I still remember the melody for Tecún Umán, which is the national hero of Guatemala. (Singing) Tecún Umán, guerrero inmortal, que a mi país quisiste librar. It's a beautiful little melody, you know? And it's nicely written and nicely structured. And those things were there. And then there was the music my father listened to 'cause he's Cuban. So he was listening to Benny Moré and Armando Manzanero.

As I was growing up - you said it very beautifully - there was a web of pop music. That's the music I actually listened to. Even though there was all this cultural stuff going on as part of the canvas upon which I was - in the countries of each country I was living in, there was this pop music that I was a fan of. And whenever we'd travel to Miami on vacation, we'd get to hear things earlier because back then in the '70s and early '80s, distribution was a thing. And so something came out then, like, today in Miami, it wouldn't come out in Costa Rica until six months later, three months later, especially movies, you know. So we'd come back with records and stuff, and they're like, how did you get that? I was like I went to Miami. You know what I mean? And so there was that kind of very cool, early on thing.

But what was the music? It was Boston. It was, you know, bands that we - I love D-Lo. I loved Queen, you know. And then, of course, as puberty kicks in, it becomes Ozzy Osborne and metal music, which is the '80s, which is the time I grew up in. So it was kind of a big mix. And like I - to finish circularly, to answer the question that you'd asked is that in my 20s when I started studying music at university, I started to actually appreciate all the stuff my dad was singing that I was like in the background. But I started realizing, oh, my God, these boleros are beautifully written, you know? And this music - and I started to really start to appreciate the kind of different things of each culture, how they brought their element. And they are varied from country to country.

CONTRERAS: I think that when people think of Latin music and Latin musicians, there are certain preconceived notions about what that sounds like or what is expected of Latin musicians, whatever genre they're working in. And I think that what's fascinating to me about your career is that, you know, you have all of these cultural touchstones as a youngster because it's not overt. It's not like this is a Guatemalan sound. It's interpreted through all of your experiences and your education and the things that you like, things you don't like, things you learn, and it's meshed in with everything else, right? So it's not distinctly Guatemalan or Costa Rican, but it's there. It's there somewhere in the DNA. You know what I mean?

RIVERA: Yeah. If anything, there's an aspect of the music I write that has syncopation to it. But it's not overt in any sense that you would be thinking, oh, it's the Cuban guy or the Guatemalan guy, you know. I think good music is something that you aspire to do always, and you kind of go to the well that - of the things that you've listened to all your life. You're always reflecting back the things you love in what you're doing. And regardless of where your upbringing comes to be, I think when it's well done, it's because you're honoring, like you said, the tradition, you know, like "Lawrence Of Arabia." Like, those great things are great because - I think their - the main concern and objective was to tell the story in the best way possible.

There were a few scenes in "The Queen's Gambit" where she goes to Paris, and she goes to Mexico. And one of the first things I started to do was - like, for Mexico, I started going there - right? - like with the Latino, you know, sound of, you know - and however, the music I started to write was actually an Argentinian milonga, which is (vocalizing), you know, the sort of, like, rhythmic. And that music got thrown away by the director because - and it wasn't because it was on - so on point because the same thing happened when we went to the Soviet Union, you know, what am I going to do? You know, how do you address that? It's because we started realizing that there was this point of view in that specific story that had to be from Beth. It wasn't anybody else's point of view. It's specifically that one character's point of view, and the music is about her or different aspects of her. So it's her in context to the places that she's in.

And if - there's a cue in the soundtrack, I guess. It's called the Mexico City Tournament. And you won't really find anything that feels, you know, like Mexican for that.

(SOUNDBITE OF MUSIC)

RIVERA: And if anything, that comes close to the Soviet Union, which is what it was - USSR - in the '60s, when she went, it's just the orchestration, if anything, trying to calls to the place we're in. But it's never overt. It's certainly not overt in Paris, either, you know. It's just aspects of it because we're talking about a character. If we were doing a location-based story where it's about the place, like a "Coco" kind of thing, where the story and origin story of this kind of folklore and beliefs come from, you're going to have to go to that - the tropes, if you will.

But knowing the tropes, I think, informs what to avoid when you're helping tell a story. And I think it also can get cheesy. I think it's a really - could become a real easy crutch to lean on if you're like, hey, look, you know, I get a Hispanic opportunity or something as a composer. It's like if the story's not asking for it, there's no need. That was an education, too, because my first things were to kind of go Latin with Mexico. I was smiling. I was, like, reading the Mexico scene, and I was like, ooh. But nope, nope, it didn't work for the story. So you respect the story.

CONTRERAS: There are lessons about the impact of musical and cultural influences on the creative process in these stories this week. Both Carlos Rafael Rivera and Dafnis Prieto helped us have a deeper understanding of the creative process and how cultural influences shaped that creative output. And in this case, that process is also being shared since both musicians are instructors at the Frost School of Music at the University of Miami, which makes the themes of expectations that we talked about this week have even more of a profound impact as students of both Dafnis Prieto and Carlos Rafael Rivera follow their lead in defying expectations. You have been listening to ALT.LATINO from NPR Music. As always, thank you so much for listening. I'm Felix Contreras. Be safe and please be careful out there, folks.

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